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 Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:21 pm

What were the comments in Estonia after decision of Finnish government. Finland still finlandized?
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lemmik

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:27 pm

Finnish government has not made any decision about pipeline it self as long as i know. They only alowed underwater research

Our media and politicans are calm at the moment. We'll see
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:40 pm

OK, but it seems that positive decision is just a formality. This means that politically Finnish government wont oppose, so technical question left and with current technology I doubt that any problem could stop them.

Finland is 100% dependent from Russian gas, it would be naive to count on them.
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:12 pm

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Last edited by on Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lemmik

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:56 pm

Yep Finland is more Russia friendly and I admire it. It's an art to deal with Russia and Finland is doing OK mostly.

Estonians don't want this pipeline, because it wont do any good for us:

*We will not get any gas from it, but we will get Russian/Gazprom warships guarding it in our waters -> for protection against terrorism???

*Baltic Sea is full of mines and different chemical weapons-> great ecological danger -> we want to keep living here, we deserve clean sea.

*Putin and Schröder keep calling Baltic States and Poland to be "blindly anti-Russian" and "parasites". -> thats kinda insulting, why would you insult someone, whos aproval you need? Chauvinism?

*And of course all those political/economical sanctions + weekly accusing us suporting nazism and discriminating ethnic Russians.

We wont get any gas, but must risk with our water + let some kind of guarding forces in + sit still and eat dirt



But Europa needs energy, that a fact...

Estonia wants to see this pipe on land not under water. I'm almost sure that Finns will say same thing. And it's not against Nord Stream, but for our water, land and citizens.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:16 pm

lemmik wrote:

*Putin and Schröder keep calling Baltic States and Poland to be "blindly anti-Russian" and "parasites". -> thats kinda insulting, why would you insult someone, whos aproval you need? Chauvinism?

As a chancellor he was already heavily criticized in Poland and now when he is openly in Kremlin pocket he is not even a partner to discussion to us. He is so small that doesn't deserve a reply. Cool
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:23 pm

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Last edited by on Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

USSR sunk some chemicals in the Baltic Sea after the war.
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lemmik

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:52 am

International Hate wrote:

Has Russia proposed that it would guard the pipe on Estonian waters? If it's so, then it's quite clear that no-one would allow that. the idea of Russian/gazprom (military) ships patrolling in our waters is just impossible.

Well at least they are not showing good will

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/business/worldbusiness/05gazprom.html
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lemmik

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:54 am

+ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream#Security_and_military_aspects
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:52 am

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Last edited by on Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lemmik

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:28 am

International Hate wrote:

But still i haven't got any info that some foreign military organization would patrol on our area.

Russian president Vladimir Putin stated that the ecological safety of the pipeline project will be ensured by using the Baltic Fleet of Russian Navy.
(wikipedia)
First ecological saftey by Russian Navy, after that protection against terrorism by Gazproms army. I'm not saying it's the 100% scenario, but doesn't smell very good or does it?
And it was not russofobic Estonia, but Sweden, who said that. Untill Gazprom and nice duo Putin-Schröder, starts to play polite with open hand, have we no quarantee that our waters will stay militarily only for our Navy Evil or Very Mad

And yesterday came an interesting testimony from Russian electricitynet (I think it's the right word) agent Marina Liborakina, who said that they have serious problems geting all gas they need from Gazprom. If Gazprom can't (or don't want to) supply their own, how can they quarantee to accomplish EU needs?(ok it's not a strong statement, but still).

Energy is a massive weapon, we gotta remember that.
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:31 am

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Last edited by on Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:54 am

International Hate wrote:
Private militias don't have objectives, they have profits.

I would not call Gazprom's militia a private one. Gazprom is state owned and so would be their militia.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:22 am

Yeah well Gazprom is state owned... But as I see it, if Gazprom's guys do something wrong, Russians would say it has nothing to do with them. But they could use them against the Finns if needed (Germany and Poland, start of WWII).

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volmer



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:37 pm

The fact that russian military will be guarding that pipe is the thing that most upsets me. One day one of those battleships will fire some cruise missiles or drop some people off and here we go again.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:32 pm

Gazprom military actually... Not much difference tho...

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DuuR

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PostSubject: ...   Mon May 26, 2008 5:30 pm

Poevad nendele Venelastele kylje alla licalt... alguses tahtsid , et venemaa ja Soome vahel ei oleks viistat vaja ...
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:54 pm

Another problem is that if Russia would build this new pipeline straight to Europe it would be very easy to cut off all the gas here if necessary. Right now all the gas pipes to Europe go through countries like the Baltic States, Ukraine, and other neighboring countries. If Russia in any reason would want to disallow Estonia to use their gas they were also forced to close the pipes to Europe. Imagine the huge amounts of money Russia would not gain.
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sigalind



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PostSubject: Re: Estonia blocked Russian pipeline and Finland allowed   Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:19 am

Does anybody of estonians or what other nation knows,w
hat happened in 1939?
Bases...loss of independence...under the signs:"We protect you against German aggression!"

Couple of thousands Soviet soldiers...couple of thousand more...fake Parliament elections(1940)...occupation...

and do you think,that Estonians should ratificate such contracts any more!?

i think no!

If this pipe will become to be made,then the Russian ships will be allowed to sail in the Baltic sea,and who knows,when the "neutral ships" will be replaced by the war ships.

So,this pipe shouldn´t be built under or over the Baltic sea,because...that,who knows a history,knows why not!

Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania-these are independent countries and should to preserve their stance.

So,when there would be a pipe,then under the ground or under the sea,which belongs to another country!
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