Voting system in the EU

What is your opinion about proposed voting systems in the EU? Below comparison of discussed voting systems and link to interesting article from Financial Times. Interesting because voting theory is discussed from mathematical point of view, without political propaganda.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/422078ce-1d38-11dc-9b58-000b5df10621.html

Interesting article. It brings a new light to my opinion about the counting system in Council of EU.

Germany is the most populous state and they provide the biggest amount of money to the EU budget. Officially there is no leaders in the EU but big and rich countries have the most of influence. Smaller countries always accept their decisions on the most important issues. Because above mentioned reasons German political elites demand more votes for them in the EU.

This is why I think this organization should not have budget at all. When somebody give you something, he always want something instead. The EU should be about cooperation and not deep integration.

Quote :

This is why I think this organization should not have budget at all. When somebody give you something, he always want something instead. The EU should be about cooperation and not deep integration.

This organization is quite helpless even with the budget. What would it be without the budget? A talking-shop?

NowhereMan wrote:

Quote :

This is why I think this organization should not have budget at all. When somebody give you something, he always want something instead. The EU should be about cooperation and not deep integration.

This organization is quite helpless even with the budget. What would it be without the budget? A talking-shop?

European Parliament remind me talking shop right now. About two years they debated how definition of vodka should look like, I can only imagine how many cases of similar importance they discuss… Without budget the EU would be free trade and travel zone. What Eastern European countries really need are not short-time subsidies but long-time access to the common market.

So I have a capitalist issue: let's make a voting power of state equal to the amount of cash it puts to the budget. Everything will be ganz ok then...

PdM wrote:

So I have a capitalist issue: let's make a voting power of state equal to the amount of cash it puts to the budget. Everything will be ganz ok then...

I could be so if the EU have no influence on lawmaking process in its member countries. If the EU would be about some projects of external importance like for example energy security. Otherwise this looks like some countries sell out their votes for money.

Sorry, i'll not comment this...

Mental aspect is also very important here. Please reply, reasonable argumentation is always welcome.

PdM, how would you describe argumentation of Slovak PM?

Quote :

“You asked whether Slovakia will support the square root proposal [formula for number of votes a member state will have -- editor's note]. A television viewer will probably start looking surprised, asking whether he is in a conference of mathematicians or at a meeting of V4 prime ministers and the prime minister of Portugal,“ said Mr. Fico to a Polish journalist, who wanted to know whether Slovakia will support the Polish proposal for counting votes based on a formula using the square root of the number of inhabitants, which would be convenient not only for Poland but also for Slovakia than a voting model already approved by 27 countries, which in part already ratified the EU Constitutional Treaty, including the previous government of Poland. He thinks that this topic is so complicated, so difficult for the public to understand and so traumatizing for the EU, that is has to be wrapped up as soon as possible.
http://news.hnonline.sk/c1-21429810-visegrad-group-prime-ministers-disagree-over-eu-voting-model

If square root is something that public opinion cannot understand, it means that something is seriously wrong with public education in Europe. If they don’t understand what is square root, how could they know what is double majority system proposed by Germany?

Beside of that, since when lack of knowledge of public opinion prevent politicians doing something? Maybe they also understand d’Hondt method, Sainte-Lague method or Hare-Niemeyer method? All are used by various national parliament around the world and I imagine how few people bothered to learn what is really about.

Fico is as much obedient to Germany as he is obedient to Russia. He protest missile bases and invite Russian energy monopoles. Sorry but this is not attitude that I expect from our government. Slovakian shoes are to small for us.

Ask typical american person, what is Poland... Or what is a country with first letter 'U'... Ppl are idiots.. A lot of ppl in PL thinks that if Kwa¶niewski weren't drunk once, the nurses would'nt by strinking at moment :/ So what do you demand? ppl don't understand what is the sqrt system or what is the actual sys.

the thing i dont understand, is why our gov is blocking the works on the constitutional treaty almost alone, while almost every country accepted the system.

Negotiations to the end, this is very good tactic. Even if you consider American missile base. I could disagree with some argument raised by our side but generally we need to keep our business. British doing this many years and nobody complains anymore. German proposal is profitable for all big states and that is why our position fails to find support among them. Smaller countries as usual are afraid to stand up for their rights. Their importance would be small anyway. So, in fact only two states are really targeted by German proposal, Spain and Poland. Unfortunately Spanish government is ideologically flawed, former Spanish PM Jose Maria Aznar would stand with Poland on this issue like he stand once with Miller. So we are alone. However we have this veto right and thus others are forced to compromise if they want agreement. No place for sentiments and naïve people here, every argument should be explored as much as possible. In the end only final result counts.




There is no honest people among politicians. They want to drop “constitution” name and push forward almost the same rules as a treaty without national referendums. What about French and Dutch voters? What about all those who don’t voted yet? This is democracy? So, if somebody say that Poland act unfair, tell me who is fair in this game?

If I would support EU integration, I would write that this is not bad deal for Poland. Twins used simple tactic good cop, bad cop and this worked. Now German /French main excuse against future enlargement doesn’t exist, treaty will be adopted. Till 2017 or a bit later western Balkans, Turkey, Georgia and perhaps even Ukraine manage to join. This will be different EU with them all, more geographically balanced. Of course Poland already support their candidacies. Also Romania will become more arrogant, I hope

By the way, good job Czech Republic and Lithuania

This EU meeting was quite a succsess for us.

I wonder why Lech, the president was so often calling Jarek, the PM
Wasn't he able to decide without support of his brother?

This is detail, also this is probably the first time when Polish PM and president cooperate with each other rather than argue who is more important.

it is the first time, PM and president have identical DNA, ane only one brain

PdM wrote:

it is the first time, PM and president have identical DNA, ane only one brain

Twins' lives run paralelly