Kosovo and its indipendence, what shall Europe do?

Hi!

Actually, in south - esatern part of europe and in western part of balkan Kosovo (Albanian territory, but so many times violated by the small Russia of Balcans, Serbia) is voting and negotiating to have its indipendence. What do you think would happen if they will obtain their indipendence. Are you favorable or oppose of this matter?

Well I'm no balkan expert but if it will be a democratic country, then why not?

It is to easy if someone say that Kosovo always was a "Albanian territory" and that this "small Russia" (Is it a kind of negative rhetoric ? ) violated their territories. Kosovo belonged between the 12. and 14. century to the heartland of Serbia. And the conflict began just in the end of 19. century with the fall of Ottoman Empire.

I think this conflict must be solved under strictly attention of Public internationally laws. They shouldn´t obtain their independence and if they do that, so then they shouldn´t be supported by other european countries.

My dear Derdiedas!
Kosovo in all its whole history is Albanian. The Kosovo citizens allies with Turks in the battle of FieldKosovo in 1398 for the unique reason to defend their territories by Serbian minor attack. Actually Kosovo was an Autonom Region till 1985 where Belgrade invade with army it under Miloseviç order. I think this is the rarest case in all coutries history that a nation as Albania (3.4 milion of habitants) have outside its territory in the borders, a minority of: (2 milion in Kosovo, 150.000 in Montenegro, 460.000 in Macedonia). The indipendence of Albania made in Berlin in 1885, decide to give half of albanians territory to the slavic influence and to fill full the Russian hegemony under slavs country.

You can check the maps and not disinformation. If you are relating to history, Albania was before Slavs coming from today Slovenia till the border of Greece.

Gert.B ,

Kosovo was a part of Serbian territory between the 12. and 14. century. And one of the endpoints was the Battle of Amselfeld/Kosovo (1389). It was a battle between the Ottoman Empire and coalition of Serbian lords. Where is the desinformtion? It is also true that the "modern" conflict began after the fall of Ottoman Empire in the end of 19. century.

And it is also not really true that Albania was there before Slavs comes. You can´t call the people who lived in this region as "Albanians".

My first reaction was to support it's independency knowing how much we needed the support from other countrys in that situation.
but then again, I dont know the history of those countrys. And I remembered some russian's threat to make an independent country inside of Estonia (!) where they can grow their kids to be russians and I thought how would I feel if someone would actually support that idea.
So its really difficult to say.
Do "Kosovanians" have another country somewhere or not? who can tell me?

im ignorant about that issue also

congratulations, you are first registered female

Krissukristel wrote:

... And I remembered some russian's threat to make an independent country inside of Estonia (!) where they can grow their kids to be russians...

I thought it has been made already. See Kalingrad

Admin wrote:

congratulations, you are first registered female

lmao!
Thank you!

Kosovo ready to be independent even without UN's approval.

Kosovo's Prime Minister Agim Ceku says that Kosovo is ready to announce itself independent even without UN's Security Council's approval.

Ceku said to the French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche that Kosovo will announce independence if Russia tries to stop Kosovo's independence programme at the Security Council.

The Programme, which is supported by USA and by many of the EU states
beholds the independence of Kosovo by the supervisory of UN.

Serbia is against Kosovo's independence. Russia insists that the talks should continue till both sides find a resolution.

Source(estonian): http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/valismaa/article.php?id=15976768

Well, well, well. This should be interesting.

The UN has no right to make such decisions. Kosovo is part of Serbia and other countries should respect their territorial integrity. If you touch Kosovo, thousandths of other separatism movement will expect similar decisions. Starting with Bosnia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechyna, Transdnistria, Kurdistan and later whole Africa with its fake, non-ethnic boundaries.

Silesia also? ;-) (¦l±sk)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Autonomy_Movement

Well the UN's main purpose is to pervent from needles battle and bloodsheed, they have to put their nose into buisness of others.

PdM, This movement is meaningless even in Silesia itself. In my opinion, bunch of crybabies offended because they lost communist era subsidies. In our region, you have Hungarians in Slovakia and Romania, Transdnistria and Poles in Belarus and Lithuania.

Trayus, If by the UN, you mean UN bureaucrats then they are interested how to steal money under any excuse. If you mean UN member countries, every each big country follow its own agenda. If not geopolitical games between Russia, US and the EU this problem would be solved long time ago. Now it is difficult because US and the EU gave the hope to Albanians for independent state. If happen, such decision remind me Munich pact, Czechoslovakia and Sudeten Germans.

Steal money? Never heard of such things, can You give me some links to any site wich have some proof or any information about that?

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/pdint49.html
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A1028_0_2_0_C/
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/10/27/213527.shtml
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050914-115700-1701r.htm
and more
http://www.google.pl/search?q=corruption+in+the+un&hl=pl&lr=&start=10&sa=N


The UN is probably the most corrupt organization in history. Even Kwasniewski dreaming about the head on the UN post talked that this organization must be reformed. Do you know that once they elected Sudan to be chairman of the Human Rights Commission?

Not really...but thanks for giving info about it, I shall attend to research this.

So my dear Polish, only cause another region in the world will ask for indipendence Kosovo should not take it? Poland historically had border problems with Germany (don't forget the Danzic and the Oder river artificial border line). Too many times the history had been written from the interests and not for the right of teh people. The only fault of Albanians is that they don't have any birg brother in their national identity branch. Is horrible that the most acient country of europe is a bait of Russia and Serbia. Woodrow Wilson saved in 1919 tha actual Albania from the total annihilation by part of Greece and Serbia.
I know very well that UN have no role and is only "de juro" istitution but you can't cover the evidence in eternity. U.S.A stoped the Kosovo ethnic cleaning in 1992 and in 1999 in the war i was there as kitchen auxiliary for the red cross as volunteer and the hell was in front of me!!!

Believe ladies and gentlemen, the horror of the war had chenge my life for 5 years, now i'm trying to become "normal". With normal i mean that if i see a Serbian i treat them as persons and don't hate them as beasts to be killed or as enemies.

Balkans will always remain as an open ethnic wound of europe!

Tere Eesti...

Then ...nobody gave hope to Albanians, is not the same with slesian, here in north Italy for e.x is Lega Nord (North league party) that want the separatism from Italy. In Spain, Batasuna, Cechenya is occupied by Russia from 1861 (if i'm not wrong) and not part of the Russia. Sudeten in zchech republic were a German minority well-known but was Hitler and another issues. The parallelism is uncorrect second my point of view. Every population should live in thier own country and not under oppression of chauvinism. Vive le libertè and selfdetermination fro the countries.
Let me refresh you mind please wiht the Berlin Conference 1885 and the Un Conference I Paris of 1919, the decision about Albania were taken to fulfill to appetite panslavic intention under Russian Empire desire. Sometimes we should dust history not only for some battles written and read by only one side information!

Thank you!

The question of relative „fairness” this is not something that I would take in to consideration solving this problem. This is all about responsibility especially of bigger countries in dealing with global problems, they need to keep similar international standards for everybody. They cannot afford and are not obligated not send troops elsewhere and be a judge, who is right and who is wrong.

This is not my personal problems with Albanians, for me Kosovo can even join Albania if Serbia agree. Border problems should be resolved during negotiation.

Gert.B wrote:

Cechenya is occupied by Russia from 1861 (if i'm not wrong) and not part of the Russia.

Yes, Chechen terrorists already controlled their land but it was not enough, they attacked Dagestan and finally lost everything. Perhaps Russian government behavior wasn't much better in dealing with civilians but Chechens proofed that they don’t deserve for independent state.

Quote :

Every population should live in thier own country and not under oppression of chauvinism.

Perhaps you have good intentions but this kind of romantic policy could lead to disaster only. You want to change the world order, the key element of stability. I will answer to this claim like one of Estonian poster in other thread about Russian minority. If Albanians in Kosovo want to live in Albania, lets them move there.

Please, is not the same again, is not the same. If Hitler would won WWII so Poland surely would be part of Germany, and perhaps after 4 centuries other could say, ah you are minority. I don't know if inside you you have a little bit of fair in what you say, withpout knowing the real problem. Serbian had always attacked the souvranity not only to Alabanians but other countries too. Let me remember Vojvodina! Any way, thank god are too many other that think it differently! If they want our lands again they have to kill all of us, no chioce anymore. KOSOVA IS ALBANIAN LAND and not Albania. Please before talking for fairness give back to Germany their land ok?!

Bis bald!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V19Enj0TDpM The albanian real territory!

If Germany would not start world war then they would continue to live in these areas. But they lost war and this was the price for it. Still remember that Poland lost more land to Soviet Union. In Lithuania and Belarus, areas with mainly Polish population still exist. But Poland is fully aware that we cannot take it back unless we declare a war against these countries. Poland is aware that this would be very bad idea. Poland doesn’t support independence of these territories as well. While your logic is completely different. You do more damage to Albanians than something positive. I bet that in Yugoslavia this region was in better shape than today.

So if you want independent Kosovo then you need to either convince the Serbs or declare a war against Serbia and win it while international troops should withdrawn.

Gert.B wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V19Enj0TDpM The albanian real territory!

I have just watched this video. This confirms all my words in this thread. Video is advocating the idea United States of Albania which consist from Albania proper, Kosovo plus additional chunks of Serbia, half of Macedonia, chunks of Montenegro and Greece!! This is craziness.

Quote :

Please, is not the same again, is not the same. If Hitler would won WWII so Poland surely would be part of Germany, and perhaps after 4 centuries other could say, ah you are minority. I don't know if inside you you have a little bit of fair in what you say, withpout knowing the real problem. Serbian had always attacked the souvranity not only to Alabanians but other countries too. Let me remember Vojvodina! Any way, thank god are too many other that think it differently! If they want our lands again they have to kill all of us, no chioce anymore. KOSOVA IS ALBANIAN LAND and not Albania. Please before talking for fairness give back to Germany their land ok?!

Yeah and how about Ukraine and Belarus would give back our lands where there are Polish majorities? Oh ofcourse it's currently quite impossible as Rzeczpospolita said. What a pitty...

Edit: Most of these post-germans lands belonged to the Polish kingdom long before Germans arrived.

Quote :

If Germany would not start world war then they would continue to live in these areas. But they lost war and this was the price for it. Still remember that Poland lost more land to Soviet Union. In Lithuania and Belarus, areas with mainly Polish population still exist. But Poland is fully aware that we cannot take it back unless we declare a war against these countries. Poland is aware that this would be very bad idea. Poland doesn’t support independence of these territories as well. While your logic is completely different. You do more damage to Albanians than something positive. I bet that in Yugoslavia this region was in better shape than today.

So if you want independent Kosovo then you need to either convince the Serbs or declare a war against Serbia and win it while international troops should withdrawn.

So true. Agreed.