WW2

In Putin-s topic you talked about ww2 and crimes during ww2, that wasnt correct topic so i made new one.

If we are argueing about who where worse Soviet union or Germany, then we must compare war crimes, genocide numbres, didnt find correct data with fast search.
But to Estonia communists where worse, Gemany accepted estonians as arian race, they didnt have to mass murther us.
Though communists did, 17% or something. Also i would say that communistic occupation was worse, they wanted to make russians of estonians, there was no any kind of freedom, historical memory, identity, they took/tried to take all from us.
So to estonians russian occupation was worse than contineuing occupation by germans.

Dont get me wrong, both where bad, evil, criminal, just compareing.

/added after posting:/

According to that it is not correct to say "we liberated you, you should be thankful" becouse occupation after germans ran away was alot worse than those times before.

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Here you say that we should respect the soviets, because look at the losses the had in WW2. Well - kinda hard to do, because in peacetime the regime killed much more than that - just one example - the engineered famine in Ukraine in 1930's - over 5 million ukrainians died of hunger.

WE SHOULD NOT RESPECT THE SOVIETS! I'm talking about the soviet people in the WW2. What soviet goverment did to its people before and after the war is another story. In that war the nazis were the aggressors, and what they did is much worse.

Voodoo wrote:

If we are argueing about who where worse Soviet union or Germany, then we must compare war crimes, genocide numbres, didnt find correct data with fast search.
But to Estonia communists where worse, Gemany accepted estonians as arian race, they didnt have to mass murther us.....
.....
Dont get me wrong, both where bad, evil, criminal, just compareing.

Yes, I understand that.

Don't double post please!

Anyway, overall Nazis may have been worse but for Estonia the Communists were more worse because of the occupation time.(Half a century compared to few years)

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Don't double post please!

Just moved it from Putin's topic so that I didn't have to... double the posts

Maybe if you had lived undr germany occupation for a longner period we could compare it now...

Actually I believe that for 70 years Russia was occupied by communists. It is ironic, but it was germans who supported Lenin in the beggining... can't boast the knowlege of facts - I don't read wikipedia

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Actually I believe that for 70 years Russia was occupied by communists.

Good comparison .

http://www.hot.ee/liitlased/

some link about russian and german soldiers as allies

Oh boo hoo, like Russians never were allies of Germans or on the other side.
They were allies no doubt about it, not once in history allied against us.
After teaming Poland in 1939, Germany took people for hard works to the concentration camps, or killed them, not much of a diffrence when we were occupied by the USSR while the war, taken to camps, killed, the worse was the Katyn massacre, a mass execution of Polish citizens ordered by Soviet authorities in 1940. Estimates of the number of executed persons ranges from 1,803 (Russian government) to 21,768.
In the whole war 6 milion of Polish died, not counting the people wich died out of dieseases or anything like that, and not counting Stalin's terror after the war.

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Oh boo hoo, like Russians never were allies of Germans or on the other side.

Stalin and Hitler were allies in the beggining - everybody knows that. Russian people have never been allies of Gemans. We've talked it over already.
All that shit that Stalin did to poles he did to russians as well.

We started this discussion under Putin's topic and finnished it here, you can check it out.
Thanks for your opinion anyway.

Yes, communists are pro-atheist.

Dunno don't have anything against'em, but since communists are pro-atheistic than Jewish couldn't really pray undisturbed aswel. :>|

bobhatersfriend wrote:

o0o0 i see..i would of thought they were since Lenin was Jewish... but lik yeah... i also don't understand why the hell Hitler attacked the Soviet Union when they were allies.. i mean thats just kind of stupid..

Hitler planned to conquer the Soviet Union from all the begining, the alliance was just giving time from preperations for the assoult.

Anytime.

And if Hitler wouldn't had attacked Stalin or Stalin Hitler, we would probably live in a 2-country world right now.

I will quarrel once again, but with You this time.
I..doubt it, well I believe Stalin or another leader of the USSR would eventually attack the Nazi Germany. Anyway such turn of event was inevitable, I cannot believe that we would live in a ''2-country'' world, impossible by that time I'm sure there some nation would fight independence out, besides there were other countries wich weren't involved in the war. ;P
But the war without Russian support would probably take more time and would take away more lives, perhaps even the Nazi Germany would win, wich is a frightening alternative.

If Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia wouldn't had attacked each other we would indeed live in a 2 (or maybe 3-4) country world- Soviet Union, Nazi Republic or whatever and maybe USA or China or Japan. After they conquer Europe, they could go on to Africa and Asia. And after they are big enough there is no way one nation would get independence easilly.

Read the book "1984" by George Orwell, it's really good. Written in 1948 about a post-WW II world where there is 3 countries- Oceania, Eastasia and Eurasia.

it's impossible to tell what would be if that or another would have happened..not in history.
if comparing those two evil things, i'd say Nazi's better (even though they didn't accepted lithuanians as real aryans, they thought we are more similar to belorussians (which weren't aryans) than to nothern countries).
both of them killed etc, but...in civil war Lenin killed or imprisoned all (well, majority) intelligent people. Why did Germany had been winning thw war at the beginning? because Russia hadn't got any qualified officers. Proletariats culture is much lower...my grandma (which lived in the country) told me that when german soldiers had come to take (don't know how to call it...tribute?) they had been polite, watched over how many animals the family had and had taken the less part. But when the russians had come, they were cruel, rough, and had taken almost everything...and this not even about humanity. Those who hadn't took everything, had made the family live better, to have more yield next year..this way the whole country lives better.
Germans had economy, unlike Russians.
Just don't think i like nazi Germany, no, they were evil.

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Proletariats culture is much lower...my grandma (which lived in the country) told me that when german soldiers had come to take (don't know how to call it...tribute?) they had been polite, watched over how many animals the family had and had taken the less part. But when the russians had come, they were cruel, rough, and had taken almost everything...and this not even about humanity.

When Germans came to Russian villages they would usually gather all people together in a shed and burn it down because they "didn't accept" russians as ayans at all. They never used strong russian language and were polite in general. It tells us about their high cultural level, which of course cannot be compared with russian peasants' rude behaviour who had the nerve to dislike such treatment and boldly resist and take vengeance on their high-bred conquerors.

Germans did much more harm to Poland than Soviets. However it cannot be denied that Germans are the most successful nation in Europe, the best organization, very strong culturally and scientifically. Although as we know very well they always felt to be way superior to other nations and from time to time this feeling caused tragic consequences for everybody. I would say that generally despite higher individual intellectual capabilities of the Germans they are also easier to manipulate by their authoritarian leaders. Additionally as the biggest nation in Europe they have aspirations to dominate in this continent. Even these days without military action tend in this direction to mention pushed by them the new voting system in the EU which favor the biggest members.

Punky Bambi wrote:

it's impossible to tell what would be if that or another would have happened..not in history.
if comparing those two evil things, i'd say Nazi's better (even though they didn't accepted lithuanians as real aryans, they thought we are more similar to belorussians (which weren't aryans) than to nothern countries).
both of them killed etc, but...in civil war Lenin killed or imprisoned all (well, majority) intelligent people. Why did Germany had been winning thw war at the beginning? because Russia hadn't got any qualified officers. Proletariats culture is much lower...my grandma (which lived in the country) told me that when german soldiers had come to take (don't know how to call it...tribute?) they had been polite, watched over how many animals the family had and had taken the less part. But when the russians had come, they were cruel, rough, and had taken almost everything...and this not even about humanity. Those who hadn't took everything, had made the family live better, to have more yield next year..this way the whole country lives better.
Germans had economy, unlike Russians.
Just don't think i like nazi Germany, no, they were evil.

From letter to letter it was the very same here too as for what I could hear from relatives and also films based on true stories.