Putin

DerDieDas wrote:

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you really like to misunderstand things aye?

I don´t misunderstand things, I just laugh about the propaganda which you believe. There are no proofs, but everyone is screaming, Putin it was Putin! This evil Pu-tin!

But of course, we all are resistent against propaganda. We just believe the really true things.

have you seen a single documentary about putin and his "doings"?

some articles about dead reporters:

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2331992.ece
-article about the guy who was investigating arms sales to Syria..

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Russia is among the most dangerous countries for journalists and is plagued by attacks on reporters who seek to expose official corruption and other abuses. The problem was highlighted by the October killing of Anna Politkovskaya, an investigative reporter and a harsh critic of human rights abuses in Chechnya.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1890481,00.html
-article about Anna Politkovskaya..

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Politkovskaya, 48, was a constant critic of the Kremlin and her murder will throw suspicion on the security services and the pro-Moscow regime in Chechnya. Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev called the killing 'a grave crime against the country, against all of us'.

a good article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,443543,00.html
about the state of journalism and free speech in russia..

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Journalism is a dangerous profession in Russia: No less than 261 journalists have been murdered there since the fall of the Soviet Union. The killers are hardly ever found.

propaganda blah blah blah... yeah.

EDIT: the "40 journalists killed last year..." I might have been wrong, I remembered wrong numbers

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But of course, we all are resistent against propaganda. We just believe the really true things.

like that there was peaceful demonstation in Tallinn... and Russians still don't know that Soviet army occupated many countries in WWII, though even Klenski sayed they weren't no "liberators" . Russia has the most powerful propaganda in the whole world, dude

Peaceful Liberators 2007 (just tiny collection)
http://www.hot.ee/tiblunn/tiblad.htm
I give this link out becose ppl outside Estonia can not have access to police webpage with tons of pics at the moment. I know we have been all talking about how many pics we have about the happenings in Tallinn, but I dont think many 'outsiders' have seen any

Krissukristel wrote:

Peaceful Liberators 2007 (just tiny collection)
http://www.hot.ee/tiblunn/tiblad.htm
I give this link out becose ppl outside Estonia can not have access to police webpage with tons of pics at the moment. I know we have been all talking about how many pics we have about the happenings in Tallinn, but I dont think many 'outsiders' have seen any

I've seen some of these pictures in russian newspapers... so awful. Can't believe it all happened it's a crazy world...

I wonder what Putin will do when his president time runs out. Will he make a new law that allows him to maintain his position?

Risto wrote:

I wonder what Putin will do when his president time runs out. Will he make a new law that allows him to maintain his position?

I don't think he needs to do that. KGB will still run the government and some other loyal puppet is installed instead.

he has said in public that he wount be candidate anymore

Krissukristel wrote:

Peaceful Liberators 2007 (just tiny collection)
http://www.hot.ee/tiblunn/tiblad.htm
I give this link out becose ppl outside Estonia can not have access to police webpage with tons of pics at the moment. I know we have been all talking about how many pics we have about the happenings in Tallinn, but I dont think many 'outsiders' have seen any

Libresse INVISIBLE!

...yeah, what should I say: Russians civilizants behaving like the Russian soldiers during WW2 in Hungary.

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...yeah, what should I say: Russians civilizants behaving like the Russian soldiers during WW2 in Hungary.

The pics really get me down, but that thing you brought up about Russian soldiers behaving badly during the war is very interesting. I mean, I've heard that before, and my grandfather, who ended the war in Austria, told that the soldiers sometimes acted... not like real gentlemen.. But I just wonder, how else could they behave there after what the fascists had done to their families in Russia... Or do you think they were in Europe on a trip?

NowhereMan wrote:

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...yeah, what should I say: Russians civilizants behaving like the Russian soldiers during WW2 in Hungary.

The pics really get me down, but that thing you brought up about Russian soldiers behaving badly during the war is very interesting. I mean, I've heard that before, and my grandfather, who ended the war in Austria, told that the soldiers sometimes acted... not like real gentlemen.. But I just wonder, how else could they behave there after what the fascists had done to their families in Russia... Or do you think they were in Europe on a trip?

So you are basically saying that the people who were freed were fascists?

Nazis were worse than Soviets, but for some countries Soviets were as bad.

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So you are basically saying that the people who were freed were fascists?

Risto, please don't pervert my words. I'm saying what I'm saying, and you understand what I mean perfectly.

There is no excuse for communist (soldier) crimes.

there's no excuse for no crime . there's no need to apologise or whatever, but some Russians (like "Nashi" members) should at least admit that coumminsts and soviet soldiers werent some angels, and everything would be Ok.

Risto wrote:

There is no excuse for communist (soldier) crimes.

Oh really? So what are we gonna do now? What about the germans whose grandparents committed the crimes on russian land?
You talking about your ancestors sent to siberia, but forget about millions of soviet people killed by the fascists as if it was okay. Stalin might have been playing his dirty games with Hitler, but as far as I remember, the soviet people didn’t democratically elect him. And one sunny morning the people woke up only to find out that their land is under attack. They suffered all the thinkable and unthinkable horrors of the war. Germans were not so polite here as they were in some est. Europeans countries; they didn't pay for the food and stuff when they came to the villages. They just burned the places down, killed women and children... So the soviet (not only russian) soldiers had every right to be a little bit angry.
I don’t justify them… but what would you do if you were in their shoes?

PS I'm not talking about the crimes made by the soviet goverment then.

Earthland wrote:

there's no excuse for no crime . there's no need to apologise or whatever, but some Russians (like "Nashi" members) should at least admit that coumminsts and soviet soldiers werent some angels, and everything would be Ok.

"Nashi" will not admit anything. They have a bit different task. Like throwing stones into windows or something...

NowhereMan it doesnt explaine why they acted badly acainst native estonians.
Soldiers where hardly brainwashed during those times, if we are looking for some explination maybe there was reason...

nazis WERE a bit worse than Soviets, i think. but for us (Estonians) Soviets were ... worse. I mean, yeah, nazis killed Russians, but this is no excuse for killing Estonians. it wasn't our fault. And Russians can't blame us for being nazi or fascist, because the biggest enemy for estonia has always been GERMAN. They occupated us for 800 years.

Voodoo wrote:

NowhereMan it doesnt explaine why they acted badly acainst native estonians.
Soldiers where hardly brainwashed during those times, if we are looking for some explination maybe there was reason...

We are now sitting in our warm houses, with plenty of food, computers and all... my biggest stress this week was when i couldn't find my visa card at the cashdesk in the supermarket...

We have no idea of what the soldiers had to come through... They were mad, hungry, dirty, sick, some of them hardly had better education than 3 years at school.. +everything i told in the previous post. I guess some of them didn't realise where they were and what they did by the end of the war.

heyyy, most of people were brainwashed in WWII. or do you think that there could be some normal people supporting Hitler or Stalin?

well depends of propaganda message im not aware of that what they saied to them maybe they told them that estonians are fascists as well. They also destroyed gravestones, monuments, art, churches.

why are we talking about that under Putin topic lol?

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well depends of propaganda message im not aware of that what they saied to them maybe they told them that estonians are fascists as well.

From wikipedia: Russia blamed Estonia because we "support nazism". Of course it was lie, but..

NowhereMan wrote:

We are now sitting in our warm houses, with plenty of food, computers and all... my biggest stress this week was when i couldn't find my visa card at the cashdesk in the supermarket...

We have no idea of what the soldiers had to come through... They were mad, hungry, dirty, sick, some of them hardly had better education than 3 years at school.. +everything i told in the previous post. I guess some of them didn't realise where they were and what they did by the end of the war.

You can say that to the soldiers who were fighting against Russia too. Now who's being ignorant?

Risto wrote:

NowhereMan wrote:

We have no idea of what the soldiers had to come through... They were mad, hungry, dirty, sick, some of them hardly had better education than 3 years at school.. +everything i told in the previous post. I guess some of them didn't realise where they were and what they did by the end of the war.

You can say that to the soldiers who were fighting against Russia too. Now who's being ignorant?

No, my dear Risto! There's a huge difference. Germany started the war. It was german soldiers who came to russia to conquer it. And you know that perfectly. Germans were "bad guys" and russians (ukranians, armenians and estonians if you wish) were "the good guys". Why there are always morons in the west who think that russia has too much land or oil, and they have a right to encroach on our property and teach us how to live? (it was a rethorical question)

It is so obvious but you seem to be teasing me all the time... piss off!