occupation or liberation

NowhereMan wrote:

I was talking about Russia. They keep teaching Russia how to live all the time.

EU teaches russia to be more democratic. whats wrong with that?

To NowhereMan

Sorry, write to your profile where you are from so I'd know better next time



And yup, USA's 'world police' role is really disturbing tbh.

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EU teaches russia to be more democratic. whats wrong with that?

there's nothing wrong with being democratic, but I don't believe that they really care about democracy and people's rights in Russia. What EU and US want and care about is cheap gas and oil, and all those righteous talks are bulshit. Same thing was in Iraq. Did they wanted democracy there? no. But they can't just come here and take everything, 'cause we, unlike Iraq, really have a bomb or two and we'll really fight for our indipendence, so they just keep poring that shit upon our heads.

Not real that EU or USA would invade Russia to get oil.
Maybe their interest is good economical relations or they are worried that "democracy" may go to far and end with war...

USA is free land, but unfortunately their war for creating democracy in other countries is the biggest joke

Voodoo wrote:

Not real that EU or USA would invade Russia to get oil.
Maybe their interest is good economical relations or they are worried that "democracy" may go to far and end with war...

But you think it is real that Russia would invade Estonia to get... to get what?...
Both US and EU have good economical relationship with China, and don't give a shit about democracy in that country and its military power (actually it worries them but they don't raise a row in the media regularly), so...
I would accept their critisism if they meant something good for russia, but they don't. And don't tell it's "propaganda" washing my brain. I read british press everyday and I wonder how I manage to stay alive when things are so bad as they say here... But you know, I go outside and see running cars, people rushing somewhere, kids playing... Yes, there are lots of problems: low salaries, bad roads... the list would be too long, but the "free europian press" keeps telling us that the biggest problem is that a few clowns are not alowed to march in the centre of Moscow! it's very irritating, you know.
Shit, I'm a bit offtopic again...

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But you think it is real that Russia would invade Estonia to get... to get what?...

It has happened before. to get what?
to get a better access to the baltic sea! russia is a huge country, but their situatuin with harbors and overall access to the sea is lousy.
No, i dont think it wouold happen in any time soon. Who knows what comes in few hundred years. It seems the wars will always exist, and wish to concuer someone else's land.
But as we have mentioned before, estonia has a very short independence history. we have been trying our best to stay free, but there has always been some bigger and meaner nation who wants our land. Germany. Sweden. Danmark. Russia. And persanally I think our national psychology is not quite cured yet.
And, lets face it, Russia is a very aggressive neighbour. Look what they did a year ago or so in Georgia if they didn't do what russia wanted-in the middle of the winter they shut of gasline going to Georgia and the whole nation was left in cold. Look what they are doing in Chechnia now. If they wouldnt have that much oil, Chechnia would have gotten their independence with the rest of us. Russia's history is very bloody. And we just want them to leave us alone. Somewho Russia don't have many neighbours that love them. why?

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Look what they did a year ago or so in Georgia if they didn't do what russia wanted

If a country make policy against Russia, so they have full rights to make sanctions against this country, just like other independent countries.

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If they wouldnt have that much oil, Chechnia would have gotten their independence with the rest of us.

If Chechnia wouldn´t have some wahabists in their government, and if this wahabists wouldn´t start a new war, Chechnia would be independent a long time ago.

NowhereMan wrote:

Both US and EU have good economical relationship with China, and don't give a shit about democracy in that country and its military power (actually it worries them but they don't raise a row in the media regularly), so...

yeah, but the diffrence between russia and china is about 7000 km
why would a european care whats going on in "the middle of desert"

NowhereMan wrote:

the list would be too long, but the "free europian press" keeps telling us that the biggest problem is that a few clowns are not alowed to march in the centre of Moscow! it's very irritating, you know.
Shit, I'm a bit offtopic again...

in russia a few clowns get beat up for showing their point of view, as in europe beating up a few clowns is against the "rules" of democracy...
i am a bit offtopic too, and sorry for my bad english

DerDieDas wrote:

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Look what they did a year ago or so in Georgia if they didn't do what russia wanted

If a country make policy against Russia, so they have full rights to make sanctions against this country, just like other independent countries.

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If they wouldnt have that much oil, Chechnia would have gotten their independence with the rest of us.

If Chechnia wouldn´t have some wahabists in their government, and if this wahabists wouldn´t start a new war, Chechnia would be independent a long time ago.

well, im glad to see you think russia had every right to turn off Georgia's heat. It shows exactly what kind of ppl russians are.
when it comes to chechnia, then, do you remember all those 9 story buildings beeng blown up in russia and your gouvernment blamed it on chechnian rebels?
first of all, chechnians always denied it. usually when rebels do something like that they always admit it proudly just to send a message.
second, media called ppl to be alert and call miliz if some strange man brings huge bags into their 8-9 story building's celler. well, one time alert ppl did saw it and called miliz. Miliz insisted those guys to show their ID and explain themselves and show whats in the bags. instead they showed their OMON work ID, took the bags back and left. and no more buildings blew up after that.

About Chechnya.

You’d better not to talk about it at all. Chechnya is a part of Russian Federation. End of story. If you think it would be better for you if they were independent you are mistaken. The conflicts there started a long, long time ago. I know so many young people who were there as soldiers. So many young Russians were killed there… Believe me, we’d love to leave Chechnya alone, but Chechnya will never leave us alone. It is a very complicated question. We’d better leave it or place it to another topic. There’s so much to discuss, but please think twice before you say something – it’s not that simple.

So you take the occupation in Chechenia as a liberation... hmm, . It's not very useful to belive Russian propaganda so much.

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yeah, but the diffrence between russia and china is about 7000 km
why would a european care whats going on in "the middle of desert"

in russia a few clowns get beat up for showing their point of view, as in europe beating up a few clowns is against the "rules" of democracy...

About China.
The distance in the modern world doesn’t matter at all.
About the clowns.
The problem is that that they don’t have a point of view at all. They disagree? Oh… They say everything is wrong? Anyone can say that, so what? Tell us, what your program is; what do you propose us to do. They just keep saying, “we disagree…” Well, we’ve heard it already. Thanks for letting us know… Thanks and good bye!

P.S. Democracy is not a destination. It is a way to better life.

Earthland wrote:

So you take the occupation in Chechenia as a liberation... hmm, . It's not very useful to belive Russian propaganda so much.

1. I didn't say that.
2. Do see an alternative way to bring peace in that part of the world?

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Somewho Russia don't have many neighbours that love them. why?

Ask the neighbours :-)

NowhereMan wrote:

Earthland wrote:

So you take the occupation in Chechenia as a liberation... hmm, . It's not very useful to belive Russian propaganda so much.

1. I didn't say that.
2. Do see an alternative way to bring peace in that part of the world?

bold text.
Russian way bringing peace is always the same- if we ocupate them, then these dogs don't bark any more. Until nowadays only Russia itself has got something out of that (more land, I mean ^^).

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Ask the neighbours :-)

Hmm, let's see. Russia has occupated almost every neighbour they have. For example Estonia... Soviets kiled 17% of our nation, now they say that there hasn't been no occupation and it's just awful how we take down a statue for such "liberator" (not liberator).

Krissukristel wrote:

well, im glad to see you think russia had every right to turn off Georgia's heat. It shows exactly what kind of ppl russians [I´m not russian, by the way]are.

Aha.. It is a very interesting statement. Do it show, what kind of people "Estonians" are?


And if you like conspiracy theories so much, you should also read some books about the 9/11 and things like that. Of course, the poor terrorists are the friendliest ppl. of the world, but the secret agencies.. yes they organice all these crimes.

By the way, was Dagestan War also the work of KGB ?

DerDieDas wrote:

Krissukristel wrote:

well, im glad to see you think russia had every right to turn off Georgia's heat. It shows exactly what kind of ppl russians [I´m not russian, by the way]are.

Aha.. It is a very interesting statement. Do it show, what kind of people "Estonians" are?

yes- we dont belive in letting ppl to die from cold just becose we disagree in something! what russians did was unbelivebly horrible and cruel. everyone ive discused it with have been disgusted. and not just estoians. also ppl from norway and usa

DerDieDas wrote:

And if you like conspiracy theories so much, you should also read some books about the 9/11 and things like that. Of course, the poor terrorists are the friendliest ppl. of the world, but the secret agencies.. yes they organice all these crimes.

By the way, was Dagestan War also the work of KGB ?

trust me, read them, heard them.
My husband, a born american, in fact belived for a long time Bush organized 9-11, now he simply belives he knew it will happen.
dont know a thing about Dagestan.

DerDieDas what kind of people are estonians?

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yes- we dont belive in letting ppl to die from cold just becose we disagree in something! what russians did was unbelivebly horrible and cruel. everyone ive discused it with have been disgusted. and not just estoians. also ppl from norway and usa

If I disagree in prices with our local elecrical or gas company, and stop paying, they will turn off the gas and electricity in my house in no time. Yes, it is disgusting. But as far as I know, it's the same everywhere. The horrible system is called Capitalism. Enjoy "free market", friends

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Russian way bringing peace is always the same- if we ocupate them, then these dogs don't bark any more. Until nowadays only Russia itself has got something out of that (more land, I mean ^^).

I repeat the question: Do you see an alternative way to bring peace in that part of the world?

Actually, I asked all my friends, "Do you need Chechnya?" All of them answered "No"... Maybe someday we'll give chechnya to Estonia and Georgia, so you'll have a chance to show the world how to handle this

Noone wants to live in that place anymore, you guys bombed it to hell, remember?

Mass murdering, that's what I'd say.

Risto wrote:

Noone wants to live in that place anymore, you guys bombed it to hell, remember?

Mass murdering, that's what I'd say.

But people live there now, remember? The cities are being re-build.

Mass muredring, mass murdering... Tell this to your democratic american/british friends in Iraq.

NowhereMan wrote:

Risto wrote:

Noone wants to live in that place anymore, you guys bombed it to hell, remember?

Mass murdering, that's what I'd say.

But people live there now, remember? The cities are being re-build.

Mass muredring, mass murdering... Tell this to your democratic american/british friends in Iraq.

Who said they were my friends. At least they had a reason - Saddam.

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Who said they were my friends. At least they had a reason - Saddam.

Haha... that's a good reason to bomb a country overseas and kill thousands of people.