occupation or liberation

Admin wrote:

DerDieDas what kind of people are estonians?

I think that you have misunderstood what I wanted to say with this sentence. I criticised the unnecessary generalisation. This kind of generalisation is the origin of racism.

Krissukristel wrote:

yes- we dont belive in letting ppl to die from cold just becose we disagree in something! what russians did was unbelivebly horrible and cruel. everyone ive discused it with have been disgusted. and not just estoians. also ppl from norway and usa

Is someone died from cold? Hä? "horribel and cruel" don´t make me laugh. The real cruel are such things like the embargo against Kuba. This embargo caused lots of dead innocent ppl. But hey, it seems that a thread is more criminal for you than a real crime. This evil russians, tz, tz, tz.

Krissukristel wrote:

trust me, read them, heard them.
My husband, a born american, in fact belived for a long time Bush organized 9-11, now he simply belives he knew it will happen.
dont know a thing about Dagestan.

I think, your words don´t need a comment.

NowhereMan wrote:

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yeah, but the diffrence between russia and china is about 7000 km
why would a european care whats going on in "the middle of desert"

in russia a few clowns get beat up for showing their point of view, as in europe beating up a few clowns is against the "rules" of democracy...

About China.
The distance in the modern world doesn’t matter at all.
About the clowns.
The problem is that that they don’t have a point of view at all. They disagree? Oh… They say everything is wrong? Anyone can say that, so what? Tell us, what your program is; what do you propose us to do. They just keep saying, “we disagree…” Well, we’ve heard it already. Thanks for letting us know… Thanks and good bye!

P.S. Democracy is not a destination. It is a way to better life.

but it does matter i think Kasearu from Estonia, or Kaupas from Latvia, or Schumacher from Germany, or Conzalez from Spain, or Smith from GB doesn't give a thing that Jing Liu's boat sank near the Yellow Sea.

but the point of democracy is that even a handicapped person could say what he wants, tho he may not have a point in his story or smth.


NowhereMan, we’ve heard it already. Thanks for letting us know… Thanks and good bye!

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NowhereMan, we’ve heard it already. Thanks for letting us know… Thanks and good bye!

Not so fast my friend I'll stick around

You Estonians are so clever. In my country there isn't enough discussion about this topic and it can be seen on peoples' attitude at historical and political questions. Estonia dared to make steps. At least a country which dares to speak.

THANKS

litlebit about liberation a litle tale:

once up one time there were nice family, they lived small house and were free and happy. Sudenly one day many many cockroaches come ant start live in their house. Cockroaches were everywhere, they were doing what they want.
Finaly disinsection guys come and free family. But those guys didnt leave they send grandmom in basement and raped daughter and killed son, then they ordered every one to serve them live as they like and order.

Now i ask was that liberation?

Well they think that we agreed that russians would come to rule here. I guess they dont know about puppet government, faked voteing"98% result", killed local leaders and so on what was done in baltics.

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terker you are wrong, these things doesnt depend of point of view but international laws. Russia occupied Estonia 1940 brakeing international law and contracts with Estonia. They invaded Estonia, made pupet gevernment and faked elections and revolution like they did it at least 10 in other countries. According to international law what happend was occupation and agression against other country. Occupied country doesnt belong to other country so they just scared away germans from land they had occupied before.

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Russia has never followed any international laws if it has not suited their interest.

But their propaganda is on international level

Earthland wrote:

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Russia has never followed any international laws if it has not suited their interest.

But their propaganda is on international level

For example they are accusing us for selling Adolf Hitler's books in large amounts. But they forgot that it was handed out in 1941 under occupation.

terker yes, as i said Russia doesn’t care of international law or contracts with Estonia. Both have Soviet Union signature. As well law that says that occupied country is occupied country not others government property. With "Tartu rahu leping" they declared that Estonia independent and Russia will never occupy us for the end of times. This kind of ignoring laws and contracts doesn’t make it less occupation.

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terker wrote:

Well, once you're talking about laws, there are always nuances that lawyers can twist around. For example the country that signed the Tartu peace treaty was not the Soviet Union but Russia. The peace treaty was signed in 1920, the soviet Union that occupied Estonia in 1940 was only founded in 1924. Therefor it can be claimed in the court of law that Russia never broke the peace treaty, it was the soviet Union.

But no one hasn’t blamed old Russia for braking "tartu rahu" or occupation.

I agree Russia wont accept occupation, because of cost of it, because of ideology that they where good guys in ww2. It would have big external and internal impact. As we know russians are raised in knowledge that they where heroes in ww2. So they would also hollow their own country. That’s also reason for acting so forcedly during monument relocation. Also they are afraid that now other countries will do it as well so they can’t just explain it to their people with fascism. I hope EU will open wounds of history and try to solve that problem once and for all.

NowhereMan wrote:

About Chechnya.

You’d better not to talk about it at all. Chechnya is a part of Russian Federation. End of story. If you think it would be better for you if they were independent you are mistaken. The conflicts there started a long, long time ago. I know so many young people who were there as soldiers. So many young Russians were killed there… Believe me, we’d love to leave Chechnya alone, but Chechnya will never leave us alone. It is a very complicated question. We’d better leave it or place it to another topic. There’s so much to discuss, but please think twice before you say something – it’s not that simple.

thats how russians solve their problems? denying, lying and... "silencing"?

thats how russians solve their problems? denying, lying and... "silencing"?
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I said there's a lot ot talk about, but asked to think twice before you say something. But you just wanted to insult me once more. Is that how they solve problems in Estonia?

NowhereMan wrote:

I said there's a lot ot talk about, but asked to think twice before you say something. But you just wanted to insult me once more. Is that how they solve problems in Estonia?

I dont want to insult you, I brang up facts.

War with Chechnya in Russia began already in the times of Emperors. This conflict there has been there over 100 years actually. So it isn't Chechnyans fault that they want to be independent and Russia always has managed to stop it, now Russia doesn't want to because it is afraid it will cause chain reaction (same way as in USSR's end years). Chechs aren't in blame that there aren't any other way to let world know about their situation then causing muts noise in the journalism (in this I mean kill people and terror).

Think about it if Chechnya would be free they wouldn't do such things.

vJ wrote:

NowhereMan wrote:

I said there's a lot ot talk about, but asked to think twice before you say something. But you just wanted to insult me once more. Is that how they solve problems in Estonia?

I dont want to insult you, I brang up facts.

What facts? that russians are always lying?

You know, I've noticed an interesting thing in this forum. All I hear about Russians all the time is that we are aggressive, idiots, liars, “not normal” and other epithets one should not hear in a civilized conversation from people who call themselves Europeans… (and I remind you that I’ve never said anything bad about Estonians or anyone).
No, my friend! You haven’t brought any facts. If you wanna talk about Chechnya, let’s talk. But what do you know about it? Tell me. I’m afraid that you will only tell me how bad we are. No facts. Just emotions and hatred to Russians...

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Think about it if Chechnya would be free they wouldn't do such things.

Bulshit! This place would become (as it has happened before) a centre of international terrorism and slave-trade and other nasty things... No one would be happy to have such a neighbour.

NowhereMan wrote:

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Think about it if Chechnya would be free they wouldn't do such things.

Bulshit! This place would become (as it has happened before) a centre of international terrorism and slave-trade and other nasty things... No one would be happy to have such a neighbour.

And how do you know that? When has this last happened (when was Chechnya last free country?)

Or is Russians the ones who should decide what is best for them? Maybe there are some radicals who would kill Russians because they have killed their families for years, but thats also why Russia should try fix their relations with them before jumping to any conclusion. In Estonia there was once in a TV a guy from Chechnya (who lives here and speaks the language) said that he hates Russia for what they have done to his people but he says he will build up his education and try to help his country in the future differently then Russians.

So you can't say what kind of people they are by some groups that have been in the past. If everyone would do that then we all could say how bad are Russian people (what we are not doing because we are civilized).