Russia vs. Estonia

Why dont we get along? What do you think?

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Why dont we get along?

Yes, why? I'm such an angel

I ment what causes all these conflicts.

Conflicts are caused of different point of view to lots of things (like history, for Russians SU was their savior from Nazis and savior of the Europe, but Estonians think about SU as evil organisation who didn't let them be fully what they are, Estonians. And since Russia has said that they are successors of SU and many Russian people still dream about the big union and praise it makes Estonians mad and they don't like then Russians if they start rubbing it under Estonians noses and Russians then don't like Estonians because Estonians won't accept their point of view how much "better" was in SU.)

whatever wrote:

Conflicts are caused of different point of view to lots of things (like history, for Russians SU was their savior from Nazis and savior of the Europe, but Estonians think about SU as evil organisation who didn't let them be fully what they are, Estonians. And since Russia has said that they are successors of SU and many Russian people still dream about the big union and praise it makes Estonians mad and they don't like then Russians if they start rubbing it under Estonians noses and Russians then don't like Estonians because Estonians won't accept their point of view how much "better" was in SU.)

You’re a little bit incorrect. For Russians SU was the same organization as for you… but our saviors from Nazis were our people, soviet people. I’ve noticed, you can’t understand the difference… And we don’t praise SU – we praise our grandfathers who gave their lives so we could live.

I guess that is one of the reasons, but there's so many more...

lol, people under SU where brainwashed, hardly lied to, manipuletad, there was no any kind fo freedom. stupid are people who still doesnt understand that.

NowhereMan wrote:

whatever wrote:

Conflicts are caused of different point of view to lots of things (like history, for Russians SU was their savior from Nazis and savior of the Europe, but Estonians think about SU as evil organisation who didn't let them be fully what they are, Estonians. And since Russia has said that they are successors of SU and many Russian people still dream about the big union and praise it makes Estonians mad and they don't like then Russians if they start rubbing it under Estonians noses and Russians then don't like Estonians because Estonians won't accept their point of view how much "better" was in SU.)

You’re a little bit incorrect. For Russians SU was the same organization as for you… but our saviors from Nazis were our people, soviet people. I’ve noticed, you can’t understand the difference… And we don’t praise SU – we praise our grandfathers who gave their lives so we could live.

I guess that is one of the reasons, but there's so many more...

Well maybe, but I have heard them telling how great it was in SU and they hope it will come back (not every one but most of them, the older ones). So what I said may be little incorrect but same time it is also correct (and I meant this mostly about Russians living in Estonia) .

bobhatersfriend wrote:

well my mom was born in Odessa Russia but her ancestry was Russian from her mom's side (my grandmother Raissa). and my entire family liked the SU they thought everyone lived peacefully together..and that it was nice, but they said then the USA started telling the countries that they were being under control and that they should just ditch Russia and live on there own and that the USA called them stupid for following Russia and stuff... now i believe everyone is following USA they think iz so great there..

Well your mother didn't know that SU was lieing to their faces every minute of every day.

I don't know, how about CCCP, but here, in Poland, many people had better life than now in capitalism. This is the reason, why parties like our PiS (Law&Justice) or LPR (League of Polish Families) have so high er.... (don't know the right word...) so much votes.

The propaganda served to people is the same now and then. Only the ideology changed. To capitalism or national-catholic. So Hypno, don't exaggerate

I wouldn't say that these parties have a large endorsement. LPR have little more than 2%, PiS got 26-30 %, PiS won mainly because many people didn't just vote, they claim that there's no good option, but c'mon, do we have a choice? It's better to vote rather than sit and let such ridiculus parties (in my taste)such as these get power. Fortunately they're slowly loosing votes.

And getting back to the topic...

I believe that these conflicts are beign alive because of history, wich is often falsed in Russia, and Kremlin's imperialistic behavior.

They rule. That's enough.
In case of LPR, you have to remember, that all those mohair berets don't answer in polls.

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It's better to vote rather than sit and let such ridiculus parties (in my taste)such as these get power. Fortunately they're slowly loosing votes.

Indeed.

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I believe that these conflicts are beign alive because of history, wich is often falsed in Russia, and Kremlin's imperialistic behavior.

I agree.

PdM wrote:

I don't know, how about CCCP, but here, in Poland, many people had better life than now in capitalism. This is the reason, why parties like our PiS (Law&Justice) or LPR (League of Polish Families) have so high er.... (don't know the right word...) so much votes.

The propaganda served to people is the same now and then. Only the ideology changed. To capitalism or national-catholic. So Hypno, don't exaggerate

Do you mean that the members of the mentioned two parties have a great pre-1989 past?

Not, but they aim at ppl, who like that style of ruling. And at ppl who are easily manipulated. I mean the Radio Maryja society here.
With PiS this is more complicated, because before elections they aimed at ppl, who now they hates. Inteligence, lawyers, press etc. Soon after elections they changed nearly 180 degree.

You see, in Poland we have a sentence made by JK. Teraz Kurwa My. TKM. This means, that after getting the power, you place your mates on every position, you can. And fire those, who were at these positions earlier. In example, if I am not describing clearly:
You became a major. You make your friends, family, political party-mates your employes. From adviser to cleaning woman. You don't care if someone is a great specialist. More important is, he is from earlier team.

JK, the prime minister, author of TKM now is using this doctrine very often...

journalists are against, so JK tells that they are criminals, lumpenliberalsts they belong to grey er ... net? they are grey eminences... and so on. The same with lawyers, and many other groups. But mohair berets believe in every word, that JK says...
What's significant, lot of mohair berets, had better in PRL than now.

I should translate some texts of JK or Ojciec Rydzyk and present them here, to show what I mean

Well hopefully that's just a little, small history evet wich will pass by soon, and soon Poland shall be a fully ''normal'' country, where politicians do what people really want, not for their own cause, that they'll finally do things FOR the people. And a place where priests such as Rydzyk won't get into politics. The Church must stay out of it.

I hope so.

But look, PiS is doing what mohair berets want

You should wath Uwaga/TVN at Youtube about Rydzyk. They tell there, that when 1 person in KRRiTV* was against giving broadcasting concession to Rydzyk, that persons dogs were killed same week. Guess by who...

* KRRiTV is the institution that controlls tv and radio. here you can read about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krajowa_Rada_Radiofonii_i_Telewizji

Oi, indeed, disturbing news.

Russians life was of course better in Soviet times. The thing is that they miss it was occupied and it had to come independent one day...

Yeas, Russians have different views, but I remember you that only 1% of them were rioting on the streets. They'äre not Estonians, they're not real Russians... they're just retards missing the occupation

As one of our politicians (Ene Ergma) sayed, that we have problems mainly qwith younger generation. None of them have lived in Soviet Union, but they have heard some stories and now they think it was something good... or maybe even not good, something interesting, something that is good for them only.... They can't, they just don't want accept that these 14 countries are independent now.

But I think normal Russians and normal Estonian (Latvians, Lithuanians etc) would just not to notice these jorks and try to make some dialouge between each other.

well, multiculturalism doesn't really work. there's so much examples of wars and conflicts, but so so few examples of peaceful coexistance (and often that's also just efficient propaganda)

let me be honest - i'd love it ALOT if one day i'd wake up to estonia without russians. only then estonian and russian states could have a chance to live normally. but as it is right now - impossible :/

slavic tribes have always been very expansive, with high population numbers and quite aggressive. and as far as i'm considered, this whole thing, as it was working thousands of years ago, it still is like that.

first proof is russia's idea, that every country bordering it has to belong to russian sphere of influence. and the second is how this idea is forced into action

haku wrote:

slavic tribes have always been very expansive, with high population numbers and quite aggressive. and as far as i'm considered, this whole thing, as it was working thousands of years ago, it still is like that.

Unfortunately I must say that I agree

haku wrote:

slavic tribes have always been very expansive, with high population numbers and quite aggressive. and as far as i'm considered, this whole thing, as it was working thousands of years ago, it still is like that.

Before Poland made a personal union with Lithuania, Lithuanians conquered large parts of Slavic Belarus and Ukraine. Baltic Prussians before Germanic order wiped them out had also opinion of aggressive tribes which often attacked Polish villages. Swedes were also expansive. But from what I read historians consider German tribes to be the most aggressive and brutal in Europe. (Vandals for example gave origin to word vandalism)

I totally agree with Rzeczpospolita, I'd advise You guys to get a history book.

«Trayus» wrote:

I totally agree with Rzeczpospolita, I'd advise You guys to get a history book.

Trayus, we all know that Slavics were not the only one to do that, but it is a fact, that even today, Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians - just to mention our neighbours - are very agressive, especially with us.